Agenda item

To receive a short presentation from two officers from TfL and to answer any subsequent questions. The two officers attending are: Chris Taggart, the General Manager (Central Line) and Mark Hart the Stakeholder Engagement Manager (Bakerloo, Central and Victoria Lines).

 

A Short background report is attached.

The Committee welcomed two officers from Transport for London, Chris Taggart the General Manager (Central Line) and Mark Hart the Stakeholder Engagement Manager (Bakerloo, Central and Victoria Lines). Mr Taggart explained that he was the leader of the operational team that carried out the day to day management of the Central Line, including Station Staff and Drivers. Mr Hart explained that it was his job to notify any stakeholders of any activity on the rail lines, or noise or if he had information to impart on station closures etc. It was his job to notify people on upcoming works or problems.

 

The TfL officers had received advanced notice of the topics and any questions that the Committee wanted to cover at this meeting and made the following statements in relation to the comments/questions members had raised:

 

(a)  Current levels of staffing on local Central Line stations, particularly with regards to ticket offices – only about 3% of journeys started at the ticket office, most of them were undertaken by the use of oyster cards. The staffing levels depended on how big the station was and on the time of day. Staffing levels were also set by the Mayor for London.

 

(b)  Extension of all-night services on the Central Line, currently operating as far as Loughton Station on Fridays and Saturdays to Epping – there were currently no plans to extend this to Epping. Night trains have now been running for several months and in the New Year this service would be reviewed. Stopping at Loughton allows them to turn the trains around and as there was a smaller fleet available during the night, a quick turn around was needed. British Transport Police have reported that the night tube has been a success.

 

(c)  The impact of the suspension of local Central Line services at weekends, to facilitate maintenance programmes – they have been doing this for maintenance work over the last 12 months and plan to continue doing this two or three times more over the coming year. This was part of their regular maintenance programme and they were also changing the way they maintained the railway so that there would be fewer closures.

 

(d)  The frequency of Central Line Services eastbound to Epping – they had introduced a new timetable on the Central Line in August trying to balance as best they could the service over the Central Line Services as a whole. They knew that over 10 times more customers used the Epping branch than the Hainault loop, so the recent timetable change redirected more trains to run to Epping, with more trains in the morning to bring customers into London during the rush hour.

 

(e)  The split of Central Line services operating eastbound from Leytonstone Station and the perception that fewer services run through to Epping than to Hainault – this was generally an issue in the evening peak with trains going to Epping and round to Hainault the demand at this time was roughly 50/50 and so their services were roughly 50/50. They did get complaints from both branches saying more trains were going the other way. Although with a depot at Hainault it may be that at certain times of the day you may get more trains going one way.

 

(f)   The frequency of Central Line services for Chigwell and Roding Valley Stations, via the Hainault Loop from Leytonstone Station to Woodford – this was a similar problem trying to match demand to available resources, trying to operate a regular service around the Hainault route. They were trying to achieve a regular 20 minute service involving a shuttle service between Woodford and Hainault, supplemented by some through trains. This was their general plan for the loop service.

 

There had been a supplementary question sent in asking “if TfL would review its decision to reduce service levels on the Roding Valley to Grange Hill ‘loop’ of the Central Line” – there was a new timetable that would come in around October 2017 and they would look to this to sort out any problems encountered so far. They recognised concerns of customers from Roding Valley, Grange Hill and Chigwell and would be looking at the timetable to see if they could off-set any negative impact as a result of the last timetable. However, they did have limitations on what they could do. What drove the timetable was to rebalance the service. They had 78% of trains on the Epping Branch where there were 92% of customers, and were trying to address this imbalance. Once the new timetable came in they could provide an update.

 

There were 85 trains on the Central Line and they needed 78 at peek times. They were in the middle of a heavy overhaul of the trains, which happened every 15 years, which entailed taking one train out of service at any one time, and this was a two year programme when they would change the motors from DC to AC, which were more reliable. If they had more trains they would run them, but now they could only respond as best they could.

 

(g)  The provision of public toilet facilities at local Central Line stations – all stations had toilet facilities; open at different times of the day. They were sometime taken out of use for maintenance or through vandalism. There was a current map displaying toilet facilities, but that was out of date and was currently being reviewed. It should be ready in early 2017, but it did not show their opening times.

 

(h)  The provision of Wi-Fi access in underground sections of the Central Line and at local stations – all their stations now have Wi-Fi but it could not be received in the tunnels and there were currently no plans to extend it. It should be noted that staff also used the Wi-Fi within the stations and would let them know when there were any problems. Currently there were seven stations that did not have any Wi-Fi and on the Central Line these were Tottenham Court Road and Bond Street, but these were being upgraded presently.

 

(i)    The extension of car park facilities at local Central Line stations, particularly in view of previous proposals of Transport for London for additional car parking capacity at Epping Station – this issue had also been raised in the consultation for the Local Plan. There was a separate team in TfL that looks after the Car Park arrangements. In regards to Epping, they are looking at improving car parking provision there and were currently reviewing their options. They have undertaken some ground investigations, drilling bore holes, to give an idea of what kind of structure they could build at the station. They were still awaiting a final report  and expected this early in the new year, after that they will be in a better position to tell us more.

 

(j)    The management of car parks at local Central Line stations and of the public areas in the vicinity of the stations – there was clear signage to identify the car park management contractor and telephone numbers for customers to use. Also station staff know the contact details and can inform customers. They were not aware of any specific issues and if any were raised they could take them back.

 

This completed the operational issues that they were asked to talk about. The meeting was then opened up to questions from the floor.

 

Councillor Patel noted that 75 trains were needed at the peak of operation and that there would be a new timetable coming out in October 2017. What sort of consultation will they be having with residents on this? And secondly, if demand was increased on the loop could they quantify how much or how the frequency of the trains could be increased and would that be based on an increase in population. He was told that they had a detailed data on how the customers used their services and had also spoken to their customers at Chigwell and at Roding Valley and had got a good idea of what they wanted. They were unsure as yet if they could increase the number of trains in the morning period and were presently looking into this.

 

Councillor Neville noted that Roding Valley was poorly serviced by public transport; there was a bus service that runs once an hour and also the ‘loop’ which is a lot less frequent, which was one of the reasons that people did not use it. How many trains were through trains that go past Woodford, how many stopped at Woodford and how much consultation was there with the bus services? He was told that there were three through trains in the morning and they would like to promote the through service to Hainault, if customers wanted a seat then that would be the way to go. And, they did liaise with their colleagues who ran the bus services. They had enhanced the night bus services to help with the night tube service. They would take back his concerns on transport provision for the loop.

 

Councillor Girling noted that we were not like the London Boroughs and that as a rural district we were out of the stakeholders engagement loop. Was there some way we could be made part of a Working Group or Stakeholders Group to keep us informed and in the loop on any consultations taking place. The TfL officers remarked that that was a reasonable aspiration and they would take it back as a suggestion. They had a team called ‘Borough Partnerships’ who looked after London authorities and would feed this back to them. It was noted that TfL was currently undergoing a review on how they liaised with other authorities to try and simplify it. Councillor Girling noted that we had 8 Central Line stations here much more in comparison to some London Boroughs. He would like to think that communications had been enhanced due to this meeting. Mr Hart added that they generally did not consult on operational matters, although they could engage and can and will talk to communities on what they planned to do, more so than they did last time.

 

Councillor Stallan asked why the ability to purchase Oyster Cards was not more available to rural communities; and could they use other kinds of shops to sell them as there seems to be only one such shop in the CM16 postal code area. The TfL officer replied that their ticket machines could now vend Oyster cards and that one third of their customers now used contactless payment. They have had this enquiry before and noted that any shop could apply to sell these cards. They would follow up on this.

 

Councillor Avey commented that he had used the Central Line for about 30 years and knew it well; he wondered if it would be possible to have Wi-Fi throughout the line so passengers could get update on the service and to enable the drivers to have real time updates on the state of the lines. Also, there was a lack of toilets on the Central Line, could they look at the possibility of people paying to use the facilities on platforms. The TfL officers sympathised with him, but noted that the Central Line was quite well served with facilities, but they were often vandalised and misused. When they close the toilets in the early evenings it was usually in response to this kind of misuse. It was a constant battle to keep them open.

 

Councillor Wixley asked that as the trains had to work harder, now that there was a night time service, did they need more maintenance. He was told that it was a relatively small increase in mileage but they did consider the maintenance aspects. They were always balancing the need to run a service and the need for maintenance.

 

Councillor Bedford asked if there was any chance they could straighten the track out between Loughton and Epping because it was an “absolute bone shaker”. What could you do to sort out the quality of the tracks? Could it be done? He was told that the track was in good condition, and they had used a ‘tamping machine’ to manage the tracks. However due to recent problems they have not used one on the Central Line recently; but have now got one running on this line, correcting some of that ride quality. They have another special machine, a ‘rail grinder’ to smooth out the rail lines themselves. They will look at this stretch of line and see what can be done.

 

Councillor Surtees wondered if toilet facilities could be made available for people from the outside, especially for disabled people. The officers were unsure how many disable toilets they had. However, members of the public could ask station staff if they could use the station’s facilities and they should be allowed to.

 

Councillor Kane asked what the term ‘capacity’ meant in terms of the Underground. He was told that it could mean a number of things such as the number of carriages, or trains or passengers. It could also have something to do with the signalling systems. They could operate up to 33 trains per hour and were at their limit at present, even if they had more trains.

 

Councillor Brookes commented that it was difficult, at non peak times, to find members of staff, especially late at night. The TfL officers said that this had been fed back to them. They try and make staff visible at all times, but sometimes at small stations there would be only one member of staff. They were looking to improve this at present; they needed a focal point for their customers.

 

Councillor Brookes went on to ask if a service was late could customers be automatically refunded if they had season tickets. She was told that they could not at present, but they could go online and put in a claim.

 

Councillor Brookes noted that it was difficult to get accurate information when things went wrong; passengers were not as fully informed as they could be. The TfL officers accepted this; it was a common cause of complaint. Communication was a big issue for them and they accepted that they needed to be better at this. They needed to get information from the central offices out to outlying stations.

 

The TfL officers then went on to talk about the strategic issues for the Central Line as set out in the comments and questions raised before the meeting.

 

(k)  The provision of resources for the enhancement of the infrastructure of the Central Line, in terms of increasing user capacity and the proposals contained the in the consultation draft of the new Local Plan for Epping Forest District – the officers noted that they have been part of the consultation process and had responded to it. Central Line capacity should not be a deterrent to the growth set out in the draft Local Plan. There had been issues about the reliability of the trains, and they have tried to balance this out with the new timetable. But, with the opening of the new Elizabeth Line in 2018/19, this would increase the capacity for the Central Line with some customers using this new line. They were currently embarked on a heavy maintenance programme and a Central Line improvement programme. This would provide new motors for the trains giving a more modern and reliable system. Work was due to commence in 2018 and would last for about three years. They did have continued investment in trying to improve the reliability of Central Line services.

 

(l)    Ongoing concern of the council with regard to platform access at local Central Line stations for people with disabilities – this also concerned Councillor Neville’s questions about Buckhurst Hill Station and the £200million the Mayor for London had allocated to the provision of step free access in the next five years – TfL were planning to deliver 30 new step free stations over the next five years and are currently working through which stations these would be. Newbury Park will be one of these stations that they will be considering. There will also be a feasibility study on the opening of part of the Lower Queens Road entrance at Buckhurst Hill Station and Councillors could be provided with a copy of this study.

 

(m) The position with regard to the rectification of signalling breakdown that adversely affects Central Line services on a regular basis. Particularly given the significant investment made by Transport for London in signalling infrastructure – the Central Line has very reliable automated signalling systems; but when it goes wrong it can go badly wrong especially when you have such a tight timetable as they had. However the systems were generally very good and reliable on the Central Line.

 

(n)  The age of the rolling stock currently in use on the Central Line, particularly with regard to issues pertaining to the operation of automatic doors and unacceptably high temperatures in carriages – there were a number of weak spots on the Central Line Trains but the doors were not one of them. Although the door are vulnerable due to numerous items left on trains that stopped the doors from working properly, jamming up the door runners. This was difficult to overcome. The Central Line was also hot in the summer and some sections ran quite deep underground. They have done a number of things to the trains to try and alleviate the temperatures in the summer, such as tinting the windows and adding white roofs to reflect some of the sunlight; they have also improved the ventilation in the carriages. A lot of small but combined improvements have been put in to improve the carriage temperatures.

 

(o)  The introduction of new and air-conditioned rolling stock – TfL were working on this at present, the following lines were currently being upgraded – Piccadilly Line, Bakerloo Line the Waterloo and City Line – which are all part of this project. Part of this is to buy in new trains and new signalling as they go together. The Piccadilly Line will go first which will give it a 60% increase in capacity.

 

(p)  The possible reinstatement of Central Line services between Epping and Ongar, as proposed by Boris Johnson, the former Mayor of London – the TfL officers were not sure if it was Mr Johnson that had proposed this. There had been some questions on this but there were no current plans to extend the line. They will engage with Essex County Council on a possible feasibility study on this proposal. There was some history on this with the Epping Ongar railway who were currently looking into having a platform in Epping near to the Underground platform to enable passengers to join the network. They are in discussion with the Office of the Rail Regulator about this at present. TfL challenge in this was that they did not own that infrastructure any longer. But currently there were no plans to extend the central line north of Epping.

 

(q)  The current CCTV coverage of public areas in the vicinity of local Central Line stations and plans for the extension of such coverage – the CCTV system installed between 2000 and 2010 will be replaced starting around 2018 as they have come to the end of their useful lives. The new system will be digital and will have better integration with the other CCTV systems.

 

 

Councillor Sartin noted that as a Local Authority we had a fully comprehensive CCTV system and it would be useful to see if they could be integrated in some way.

 

The Chairman then took any follow up questions from members in attendance.

 

Councillor Neville asked about the £200 million funding for step free access, was it match funded by Local authorities or would TfL pay for it all? He was told that they did not as yet know how it would work. They would get back to about this.

 

Councillor Avey noted that a big problem was door issues that took trains out of service, was there a solution for this? And when they got their new trains would they put safety barriers on the platforms? He was told that the doors were quite reliable but susceptible to items getting stuck in their runners. They have a safety circuit on the trains and if this was broken the doors would not close. It must operate for the safety of the trains. The new trains were more effective on this. As for safety barriers on platforms this is dependant on having an automated railway line and it may be that the Central Line would end up with ‘platform edge doors’ when the line was upgraded.

 

Councillor Girling commented that the new Elizabeth Line had the potential to hive off some of the capacity to this line. London 2012 was a success for TfL and other stakeholders in part because the projected capacity problem was spread over different lines and different ways of travelling, we have other lines around our district but he was not convinced that people would be prepared to go out that far. Also some of the over-ground lines were more expensive that the London Underground. As a way forward was there a way of levelling out theses fees so it was not a barrier for people and they could consider using these alternative means to travel. He was told that fares were a matter for the Mayor’s office; and although the Elizabeth Line would have an impact it was not yet known how much of an impact that would be.

 

Councillor Sartin noted that the range of an Oyster Card will be extending out to Broxbourne. People now travel in from Harlow to Epping to get on the Central Line, do you now where the Oyster Card will be going out in the future and what would now happen to those routes. She was told that the future of the Oyster Card would depend on TfL having control of those routes as part of London over-ground and the pricing structure would also depend if they operated those services.

 

Councillor Bedford asked if the zoning structure would be looked at again to try and level it out a bit more. The TfL officers were not aware of any plans to do this.

 

Councillor Wixley asked about the Draft Local Plans for Epping and Redbridge, what would be the effect of building near the stations and the consequential knock on affects for passenger numbers. He was told that it was difficult to comment until they started to see the impact of the Elizabeth Line. In the long term there will be new trains and new signalling systems with this new line. But the trains will be busier for longer; there was no magic pill to cure this.

 

Councillor Breare-Hall picked up on the capacity issue noting that it was very busy during the rush hour periods but during the day, the lines were very empty. Was there any way to encourage passengers to travel outside the peak hours? He was told that they did try to get people to travel outside those times; the latest initiative was show via advertising just how crowded the trains were at peak times. This did work for short periods and also worked very well in central areas with tourists and visitors.

 

Councillor Waller said that he had attended a meeting some months ago of local authorities along the Central Line, it was suggested that  improvements might be introduced to increase capacity at peak periods by 10% and that would be about the limit, but our Local Plan suggests that the population would increase by more than that. Was that figure of 10% something that they would recognise? He was told that the figure of 10% did not ring a bell but there were a number of things that they could do, such as making the train better, creating more space and increase capacity using the signalling system. They were currently concentrating on reliability of the service and keeping the trains to time etc.

 

The Chairman then asked former Councillor and Chairman of the Council Stan Goodwin to ask his question.

 

Mr Goodwin said that he had worked on London Transport for 40 years as a guard and driver. He had experienced the sort of problems they were now experiencing over his years in the job but was now concerned about how the service was developing and the problems that were happening. Why were there so many trains to Epping and so few on the loop? The new timetable was even worse, making the trains more crowded. He also expressed concern about the number of people coming to Epping and Theydon Bois to park and get on the trains there. There needed to be a survey of the area before the next timetable was put in place. The TfL officers said that this was something that they did a lot of work on, such as the volume of people that travelled etc. they have trialled reversing trains to Debden a few years ago, but this required more staff and time. It worked better from Loughton. The other restricting factor was the number of trains they had available they did their best to balance the timetable but valued any feedback.

 

The Chairman thanked the two TfL officers for their comprehensive responses to our questions and noted that if any other points came up after the meeting we would let them know. Also if there was any possibility of setting up a working group to liaise with TfL we would be very interested. She looked forward to having them return some time in the future.