Agenda and minutes

(Assistant to the Chief Executive)  To report the appointment of any substitute members for the meeting.

It was noted that Councillor G Waller was substituting for Councillor M Sartin.

(Assistant to the Chief Executive). To declare interests in any items on the agenda.

In considering whether to declare a personal or a prejudicial interest under the Code of Conduct, Overview & Scrutiny members are asked pay particular attention to paragraph 11 of the Code in addition to the more familiar requirements.

This requires the declaration of a personal and prejudicial interest in any matter before an OS Committee which relates to a decision of or action by another Committee or Sub Committee of the Council, a Joint Committee or Joint Sub Committee in which the Council is involved and of which the Councillor is also a member.

Paragraph 11 does not refer to Cabinet decisions or attendance at an OS meeting purely for the purpose of answering questions or providing information on such a matter.

There were no declarations of interest pursuant to the Council’s Code of Member Conduct.

To agree the notes from the 14 February 2013 meeting.

The notes from the 14 February 2013 meeting were agreed as a correct record.

The Terms of Reference  for this Panel has now been agreed by the Overview and Scrutiny Committee on 29 January 2013.

A copy of the Terms of Reference is attached for information.

The terms of reference for the Panel were noted.

To consider the attached report and guidance notes.

The Panel considered the training requirements of scrutiny members for the new council year.

The Panel considered that the following courses be offered to members:

• Chairing Scrutiny for positive Outcomes; and
• Improving Questioning Skills -  to be run together as one course.

They noted that the budget for member training had been squeezed but some money could be found from the O&S budget.  Packaged together these courses could proved to be cost effective. It was queried if training on Chairmanship was applicable to all members but it was agreed that it would be useful for Chairmen, Vice-Chairmen and any other member who were potential chairs of other committees.

They also considered that the following courses should also be offered to members:

• Effective Financial and Budget Scrutiny;
• The Fundamentals of Scrutiny; and
• Assessing Evidence and Drafting Effective Recommendations.

The Panel considered that the financial training course would prove useful for all members. Each member should receive basic finance training as most Council business was connected to finance.

Also if possible the financial scrutiny training be held in the autumn just before the start of the budget setting process.

Members wanted make the training available to every member so that it became cost effective and there was not always a high attendance at the training sessions.

It was agreed that the courses be held on a Saturday and if possible to share the costs of training with another authority (such as Harlow and/or Broxbourne etc.).

Councillor Stallan noted that the Tenants and Leaseholders Federation had set up their own scrutiny panel, and it may be that we could invite them to an appropriate training session.

If possible the training session should take place before the first presentation to the Overview and Scrutiny Committee in June and should be organised for some time at the end of May.

RESOLVED:

(1)        That the external trainer, Tim Young, be appointed to run the training for members;

(2)        That the courses should be:

·         Chairing Scrutiny for positive Outcomes; and

·         Improving Questioning Skills -  to be run together as one course; and

·         Effective Financial and Budget Scrutiny;

·         The Fundamentals of Scrutiny; and

·         Assessing Evidence and Drafting Effective Recommendations.

These course to be organised for a Saturday if possible.

To consider the way finance is scrutinised in the future. Attached is an I&DeA paper on Scrutiny Finance for information.

The Panel considered a report on budget and performance monitoring by Overview and Scrutiny. They noted that the Finance and Performance Management Standing Panel mirrored the Finance and Performance Management Cabinet Committee and this could cause problems especially in joint meetings, when the Cabinet Committee invited the Scrutiny Panel, it was still a cabinet meeting.

The report also contained feedback made by members on budget and performance monitoring. They noted that the volume of information provided at the meetings was daunting and confusing for members. They also tended to go through figures that the Cabinet had already looked at. It was the Cabinet’s responsibility to look through the details and not the scrutiny panel's. The Standing Panel should have different terms of reference to avoid duplication. They could look at what’s coming up in the budget, but also at look backwards at what happened before and how that worked. They should be looking at any trends, problems and themes that were emerging.

The agenda also contained an interesting I&DeA document on financial scrutiny. Councillor Angold-Stephens drew the Panels attention a statement in the I&DeA report that “a good financial scrutineer does not require you to be a financial expert. But it does require you to ask questions and challenge when you are not clear about how the council is spending its money and how it is ensuring that there are sufficient financial resources to fund its current and future plans. Similarly, don’t be put off by the columns of detailed figures you may be presented with as a member. The same principle applies – if the key messages are not clear to you ask your cabinet members or financial officers to explain what the information is supposed to tell you. Good financial scrutiny will require you to develop a reasonable knowledge of the council’s financial standing, but it will require you to ask pertinent questions even more.”

The Assistant Director of Finance, Peter Maddock, informed the Panel that the finance directorate produced a mid-year financial plan as the first draft of the budget. There could be a role for scrutiny to look at this plan as a first step of scrutinising the budget process.

It was also noted that changes in the local government finances would mean that more emphasis would be put on business rates.

Members noted that not many councillors were interested in finance and that it could be intimidating to ordinary members.

Councillor Angold-Stephens said that they should look ahead all the time and be aware of pressures that are building up and ask for reports on these upcoming topics.

Asked what the standard budget cycle was Mr Maddock said that a first draft was produced in mid September, mostly in words and with few figures in it. Councillor Whitehouse commented that this was something that should be flagged up to all members as an important stage in the cycle. Maybe something should be put in the Council Bulletin.  Officers noted that it did not  ...  view the full minutes text for item 25.

Attached are some comments from Councillor Girling on the operations of the Overview and Scrutiny Committee and also a list of actions agreed so far by this Panel for information.

1.         Councillor Girling’s Comments:

The Panel considered the comments of Councillor Girling on various aspects of the Overview and Scrutiny process.

The Panel agreed with a lot of his statements and comments. His first point that members should submit a list of questions for a forthcoming O&S guest speaker two weeks in advance was considered. They agreed that it was sensible that members submit questions for upcoming presentations but it should not be a proscriptive two weeks before hand as suggested. Members “should aim to submit” questions as early as possible. These questions would be sent to the presenter a so that they could prepare answers. It was noted that officers had sparse response from members when they asked for questions via the Council Bulletin.

A lot of presentations on the O&S work programme tended to be cyclical and may not be what members wanted. The Panel also discussed the merits of having a power point presentation. The concluded that it could still be useful but it should be time limited and we should ensure that they address the issues that we want them to and not what they want to.

It as also noted that outside bodies that gave presentations should be scrutinised and not just allowed to a give a general annual update. They should give a more targeted presentation relevant to members needs.

Members also raised concerns of having a heavy agenda after a presentation and the constraints on time that this produced.

The Chairman asked about how O&S would interface with Health Scrutiny, the PCC Panel or County Scrutiny all of whom were due to go to O&S meeting in the near future. It may be some presentations could be devolved down to a relevant Scrutiny Standing Panel. Officers asked if they should start with a blank Work Programme at the start of the year.

Councillor Girling also asked if the agenda for a presentation at a meeting should be adjusted to allow for more time. Councillor Stallan asked if 7.30pm was a good time to start. Would not a 7.00pm start give more time. Mr Hill answered that as one of the major committee the committee members should be asked about their preferred start time.

Councillor Girling’s also made the point that O&S committee members should be allowed to ask all their questions before the chair opened it up to the other councillors. It was noted that this was generally what did happen and this still applied as a general rule.

Councillor Girling also wanted a list of all questions and answers to be put in the Council Bulletin, but it was noted that they appeared in the minutes of that meeting.

Councillor Girling also suggested that the pre meeting should be only for committee members but the Panel agreed that it should be kept as is for all members to attend.

The last point of Councillor Girling was that the Chairman should be tougher on guests to make it  ...  view the full minutes text for item 26.

The Panel is also due to consider the Public Profile of OSC. However, because it was considered that the discussion on the finance aspects of scrutiny would be quite detailed and take some time it was considered that a further meeting be agreed to deliberate this topic. Available dates for April will be brought to the meeting for consideration by the Panel.

It was agreed that the Democratic Services Officer circulate available dates by email to members for possible future meeting dates.